I believe in Photons as Particles, The extreme speed of these particles makes observation very difficult. What is observed is the waves these particles generate. These waves have an effect on space - time and our observation thereof. Much as the warping of space by Mass (Gravity) effects space - time.

Therefore the waves generated by particles are real and so are the particles themselves. Interactions are possible with both. There is no need to argue for one or the other. They both exist.

Mystery

PS , is there a possibility that photons actually travel just slightly faster than the speed of light, and yet when measurement by observer is taken we find that the photon has travelled at the speed of light How could something that sounds so illogical actually be fact TIME will tell.

==========================================================================

Old Notes (Physics)( Stevenson)

These partial out of sequence rough drafts contain very little that was not known by physics at that time, but may indicate a direction of thought which was being taken by me at that time.

Responses
Choices Votes %
MASS 2 20.00%
MAGNET -(having both mass and magnetic field) 1 10.00%
STEEL 0 0.00%
COPPER 0 0.00%
GYROSCOPE 2 20.00%
ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELD 0 0.00%
CONCENTRATED NUCLEAR ENERGY 0 0.00%
SUPER COLD MASS ( super conductive) 1 10.00%
ELECTRON EMISSIDNS (ionic and/or lifter propulsions) 0 0.00%
SUPER HOT MASS 0 0.00%
INERTIA **************************************************** 3 30.00%
VORTEX THEORY 1 10.00%
PLASMA 0 0.00%
BOOTSTRAP CONCEPT 0 0.00%
OTHER (please explain your idea in a post) 0 0.00%

Responses
Choices Votes %
At or below the speed of sound. 0 0.00%
At or below the speed of light. 3 37.50%
Faster than the speed of light. 3 37.50%
Instantaneous. 2 25.00%

Responses
Choices Votes %
Within 1 year 0 0.00%
Within 2 years 1 20.00%
Within 5 years 1 20.00%
Within 10 years 2 40.00%
Within 25 years 0 0.00%
Within 50 years 0 0.00%
Within 100 years 0 0.00%
NEVER 0 0.00%
Are you joking, we did that years ago! 1 20.00%
other,---please explain in a post ... 0 0.00%

Responses
Choices Votes %
I am considering building a prototype in the near future. 3 21.43%
I am conducting research. 3 21.43%
I would like to help others in research. 2 14.29%
I like to study other peoples research. 0 0.00%
I like to read science articles, but don't want to get invoved.0 0.00%
I am building a prototype now. 5 35.71%
I don't want to do research but would be willing to donate for a scientific cause. 1 7.14%

Responses
Choices

Antigravity 1 16.67%
Slingshot effect 1 16.67%
stationary orbit 1 16.67%
gravitational interaction propulsion 3 50.00%
other, explain in post... 0 0.00%

to place something in the Public Domain without someone else
coming along and patenting the idea and mothballing it, so it becomes virtually useless. A free process for placing something in the Public Domain would be nice, for those that wish to do good for mankind, and have a helpfull invention that they don't want suppressed. There are many opinions on these matters, but I would like to get a true Patent Lawyer who is current on the latest Patent Law to answer these questions if there is anyone who is willing to
do so.

Tim Ventura,
Welcome,

I will get straight to your questions, with the
understanding that I will mainly be speaking of my work at first and
will touch on some of the group's work at the end. However I must
say that there is much about my work (now) that I don't discuss here
in this PUBLIC forum, and there are some things which quite a number
of the members have asked me to retain in confidence, however I do
discuss some parts beyond what is here, in the forum in the chat
room here at 8PM Arizona Time Zone every night, voice and text. Also
I can be contacted by email.

Questions;
(1)
I have built and tested roughly 40 different devices since
I began experimenting in this area (Gravitational Propulsion) around
1980. I have had about a 95% success rate , with these devices.
Those devices which failed, were mainly due to structural weakness,
not theoretical error. In the failures, a structural redesign with
the same end result in mind, eventually was successful.

(2)
In the devices that I have constructed by myself, the
majority of these devices in this arena of study have operated on a
straight forward interaction between Gravity and the Gravitationally
interactive parts of the machine, ( in the simplest forms the G
interactive parts have been concentrated areas of Mass )

From the simplest devices to the more complex devices;
they have also interacted, with the surface of the machine, with the
environment it is resting upon, with the aerodynamic environment it
is within ( G / Magnus Effect ), and ultimately a dual interaction
with gravitational fields ( G / G ). I further believe that this
device will be able to function in interaction with the fabfic of
space, however I have yet to prove this speculation and believe that
prudent backup propulsion would be wise.

(3)
In the NSF application, which was back in the mid
eighties, I have to admit now that I had actually built an operable
device before I applied for the grant. At that time there was a lot
of resistance to any concepts that had any association with Gravity,
so what I was attempting to do was establish a basis for further
research in this area. I demonstrated a simple remote controlled
sphere to a high official at NSF, before I was encouraged to submit
a proposal.

The Proposed device was operable through it's parts
interaction with Gravity, and through it's surface with it's
environment (Land, Water,Air) Furthermore , it had Gyro Stabilizers
which aided in extraordinary control, added torque when properly
positioned, and supermaneuverability.

For a more detailed research on the NSF Application and
it's review and related theory, I would suggest you go into the
Files section on the left side bar of this page and look for 2 file
folders; 1 is "History Stevenson", 2 is "Stevenson Science". Within
these folders are secreted multiple ZIP FILES, that contain high res
copies of original documents and data. A few of these documents are
in the photos section, but are not as high res.The files on the left
are not accessible by the public, but are open to members and may be
downloaded. Also unlike certain documents that have failed scrutiny
by experts in recent news - these documents are authentic , and may
be examined and found to be authentic. After you review these files
you may have more direct questions.

.....................................................................
As to the group's research, everone is encouraged to pursue
their own direction of research, and share as they feel comfortable
here in this public forum, and for more secret concepts they may
discuss said research in our Chats here every night at 8PM Arizona
Time, or by email, snail mail or even by phone , or if really needed
in person.

At this time I invite any of the members that wish to, to post
their ideas or response to this topic, to do so. You may reply to
the original post, so my longwinded response does not make the
thread too long.

The links section has some of our member's web sites listed so
you may go to their sites to review some of their concepts. Also
there are some of their ideas in the files section.You are welcome
to submit any concepts or links for inclusion in our files or links
area to my email address.

One of my concepts for the group is outlined to a degree in a
post called "The Time to Build a Ship has Come". However there is an
amount of secrecy in what I am doing and planning, After my
experiences with the Government's duplicity, which I believe was
really motivated by a few in power with an eye to greed, I use a
touch of caution...

Mystery

Part of my gyro searches. Always interested. I've talked with a number of the major gyro manufacturers and some of the smallest tinkerers. I know what i've done and I like to see what other's are learning. Although I came up with a different model for "space" in the mid eighties that lets me pedict behaviors of force that are not included in standard theories of gyroscopic force and inertia, still what other's are doing interests me. There are many roads.

Mystery

For more information on the grand unified theory of everything and some of the concepts associated with it please click on this link for all the latest... very interesting...
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/26mar_einstein.htm?list661109

if the link can't be clicked, on you may need to copy and paste into the address bar then hit enter.

Mystery

I was recently thinking about how the ancient Egyptians were able to build the pyramids. I came up with an idea that I discussed in a few chat rooms, but it didn't go over too well. Most people are at either ends of the issue, either massive numbers of slaves pulled the massive blocks into place or UFO's levitated them in place.Supposedly the space aliens needed a reference on the surface of Earth to navigate by,(boy if they didn't have a better system than that...)

My concept was fairly simple by today's means. It was known in ancient Egypt, that the Nile flooded roughly every 7 years.It was my suggestion that a sand Dike could have been built right around the area where the Pyramid was to be built, and if needed a small area of water locks could be built from the Nile to the Pyramid construction site.

As the giant blocks that were cut and floated down the Nile, they could be guided into these locks and slowly "floated" (You knew GRAVITY had to be involved somehow ) above the place where they were to be lowered into place. I suppose one barge was required to float the block down the Nile, while a second was needed at the construction site on the other side of the block to help balance out the lowering of the block into place via ropes.

After the project was finished the sand dikes could be removed, and people would marvel for thousands of years.

Mystery

In orbital mechanics G (Gravity) is a major factor throughout. When speaking of the planet's orbital velocity, one can not forget the influence of the effect of G force from the sun and other celestrial bodies in determining the full picture. Yes that could even be said to invole the relative small G effect of a small spacecrafts flyby. None the less the spacecraft's normal flight would not even be perturbed if the Planet or sun's G force were not part of the equation. G force could still be used in such a manner if we were speaking of a rogue planet that was relatively still in deepest space and a spacecraft wanted to make use of it's G force.
That is all I was trying to establish that G interaction can be used to alter the path or motion of another object in a direction other than that of the actual G force. I was not suggesting that the so called "slingshot effect" was the actual effect that was going to be used in the propulsion system specifically under discussion. I have heard others talk of the use of a slightly elliptical flight plan for a scramjet to use to try to attempt to achieve orbital velocity, but my plans have nothing like that in mind.

As to the sphere under consideration, you mentioned that it did not defy G. As I had said in the prior message I am not attempting to defy G, I am attempting to use an interactionn with G in order to propel. Think of the sphere as only being on a flat surface Tape a quarter on the outside of the sphere (if the sphere is light enough) and the weight of the quarter will make the sphere's center of G to be off center and the sphere will attempt to equalize it's center of G. In some of the more advanced sphere's which I built, I included Gyroscopes which increased the potential torque that could be aplied to an interior axle and then very steep hills could be climbed. It was at this point that friction did become an important factor, but,there were other factors involved, although I must admit that there "may" be a special interaction that occurs between gyroscopes and G.

I don't feel that the sphere is an inertial propulsion device, due to the above decriptions, I classify it in it's earliest form as a "Direct G Interaction Propulsion Device". In another thought experiment think of the hamster in his wheel. When he moves his weight forward in the wheel the wheel is set in rotational motion.When this specific experiment is used we can say; an artificially induced unbalanced cener of G causes rotational motion.

As long as the wheel is suspended and restained, there is no propulsive effect allowed to occur. But we are able to make a statement if we wish, involving the interaction between G , energy, and rotational motion. I destroyed several filecases of such formula years ago, and have kept what I wished to retain locked in my mind ever since, and try not to bring to remebrance those things I choose to forget.So I hope you realize that in many of my statements I am merely going over old portions of the theory behind some of the concepts, but I am not disclosing at the present time how the main propulsion system which I am not even attempting to reconstruct at the present time, works in it's entirety, as that remains
confidential.

So with what I do share in that regard, realise we are only talking background theory and do not jump to the conclusion that somehow what I have said would actually be the main design behind the GPU system. Right now what we need to concentate on is additional propulsion systems that will supply multiple redundancy in a craft's design and the energy subsytems that will supply power for those systems. Actually in my mind the energy supplies will be perhaps amongst the geatest challenges we face. The tradeoffs in mass for multiple energy resources, and batteries etc. are very great.
Mystery

First off let me say that I have no wishes to overturn Newton. I feel that his thought exeriments for his time period were nothing short of amazing. Furthermore I must say that his theories have by and large retained their validity despite some nitpicking from modern science.I only hope that Einstein's theories hold up as well after such a long time period has elapsed. By the way, in our links section we have a link to the Gravity B experiment, that hopes to tell us more about gravity as well as may help to confirm some of Einstein's work. Go Albert.

Also from the first section of this thread, there was discussion of the possibility of breaking some of the laws of thermodynamics. Alas, of the propulsion systems now under consideration, all will require the input of a fair amount of energy. So "unfortunately", we will still not be able to "get something for nothing" Although we do hope to be able to reduce the
amount of energy required to achieve orbit, or go anywhere in space ,by a substantial amount, it's still not a free ride by any means. That is part of the reason we will need to begin testing subsystems that will supply said energy as discussed before: solar and so on... Sometime in the future even a small nuclear engine could be considered, but for us that is a ways off.

As to the Gravitational Propulsion angle, which we are only skirting the issue about, here, in this public forum. I am sure most of us have heard of the slingshot effect whereby spacecraft gain acceleration in a predetermined direction by using the gravitational well of a planet, this in and by itself supplies proof of concept; that a Gravitational Force can be employed to cause a motion in a direction other than that of the force.

This I do not refer to as "anti-gravity", rather I refer to this as an Interaction WITH GRAVITY. I also refer you again to some of my earlier writings which were published in the mid eighties and are in our files section listed under Gravitational Propulsion. Much as a sailboat is able to interact with the force of the wind, in order to travel in a direction other than that direction in which the force of the wind is pushing. A proof of concept involving wind interactions can be established.

With some of the earliest of my designs, whereby a sphere could be made out of balance by lifting a weight by supplying energy (electricity) to a motor on an axle, and when this device was directed up a hill it could by lifting an interior weight climb the hill. That device remained attached to the earth but it once again demonstrated that by utilizing an interaction with gravity, you could cause motion in a direction other than that of the natural flow of gravity. None of the effects described violates Newton's
Laws. In fact they depend upon using Newton's laws to interact gravitationally with mass, and they further will depend on
Einstein's gravitational theories in order to work in space - whereby space is warped and interacts with mass...I have an eye for things that work, and so even though everything is not being disclosed on my work now, I have good reason in my pursuit.

Then again there are other propulsion concepts that we are working on as well, as with all of the systems it is wise to have triple redundancy, most of my thoughts on that can be reviewed in the earlier posts however. I might list some of the systems here as I don't think we have listed all in this forum yet , so others with concepts please feel free to put your ideas here as well.

Small chemical retro rockets. Laser Space turbo-jet concept. Inertial Drive. Small"Electro-jet-arc Ion Drive. ChemicalMolecular Vacuum Reaction Drive.

I know there are some others that the people who are working on them don't want disclosed, and I am most likely forgeting some because I am only pulling most of this off the top of my head, but yes we have plenty to work on. And plenty to test on a vehicle even if our first test vehicle is limited for the best part to the earth.The better the systems we develope and the faster, then the sooner we can get where we really want to go.
Thanks,
Mystery

The Optical Magnus Effect is very close to some of my
earlier particle concepts involving rotation and spin in the
propagation of light. Now current physics is coming very close to
where my theories began. Here are some examples that have been in
our FILES section in the sidebar to the left for some time. Most are
from Stevenson and Science Files, many of the best images are in
hidden Zip files.

From page 4 in my 1980's Gravitational Propulsion Theory ;

" From my study of these interactions I must state that there
must be many different forms of warping of space, and hence
different behaviors. Indeed working backwards in a fashion, I have
determined that certain behaviors of different particles determine
their behavior in space. In short one might say that certain
particles are propelled through space by the way they warp that
space. ( For example : Photons )"

From page 6 in my 1983 Public Domain Sphere;

" 3. Aerodynamic Model. The same basic design goes for
this model, however you may wish to modify with a larger motor and
more power. Suspended by swivels attached to the axle points on the
exterior of the sphere, and lines from these swivels to poles, the
principle of the sphere can be used to test aerodynamic behavior of
a variety of different rotating objects.Shapes can be varied- ...
This type of testing may lead to other textures"

OPTICAL MAGNUS EFFECT ;

A rotation of the modal noise pattern generated in an optical fiber when
the illuminating light polarization is switched from right-handed
circular to left-handed circular. It demonstrates the spin-orbit interaction of a photon.Here is a second definition which is slightly more
advanced ;

"Optical Magnus effect" ;

It is predicted theoretically and registered
experimentally that the speckle pattern of a laser beam transmitted
through a multimode fiber undergoes an angular shift from the
switching of the chirality of the polarization. The effect may be
considered as the result of the spin-orbit interaction for the
photon in the inhomogeneous medium.

It might actually help you to understand the spin and/or
rotation factors if I give you my definition of the original old
Magnus Effect as it was thought of in general physics before the
term was applied to optical physics, this deinition is from our
Advanced Propulsions Definitions Page;

MAGNUS EFFECT ;
The lift or force generated perpendicular to the
directional movement of a rotating object , such as a sphere ,
cylinder , or disk. Named after Heinrich Magnus who did a study of
aerodynamic forces on spinning spheres and cylinders in 1852. Isacc
Newton had mentioned the effect as early as 1672.

Here is a link to a very well thought out research paper on the
Optical Magnus Effect and I recommend it to anyone wishing to
further study this subject;

http://132.236.180.11/PS_cache/physics/pdf/0402/0402110.pdf

Recently in our nightly chats some new concepts have been put
out on the drawing board for discussion. The one I really liked the
best is the one for the testing of subsystems that could be used in
space by the construction of a modular vessel that would be employed
here on earth.

The challenges as I understand them to be, would be to create a
vessel that could travel through a rough environment (Sea) with air
tight compartments, operating with multiple environmentally safe and
stable energy sources (Solar etc.), And new and hopefully unique
propulsion systems (Inertial, Impulse, Rocket and or Jet) With
mutiple back up systems in all categories.

All the while, this vehicle must be capable of conducting REAL
research, having on board an operating laboratory, and multiple
research objectives in mind. One objective being to evaluate the
operation of said vessel. Another research objective that has been
suggested has been the active study of multiple "dead zones" which
have been forming in many of the worlds seas. An area that seems to
be now in danger is in the Florida Keys, and yet nearby in the
Bahamas there have been very few of the changes , allowing for
a "temporary" time period of research to be conducted on the actual
changes and the relative differences in a small area.

This area also has a temperate climate allowing year round
studies to be possible. There have been some interesting changes of
migrations of certain bird species within this zone as well as sea
mammal populations. All in all a wonderfull place filled with
potential for research which could try the abilities of any research
vessel undergoing systems and operational testing. We would want to
get a lot of bang out of our bucks for what we have planned. And
this area even has some magnetic anomalies that have played havoc
with navigation for centuries.

We have discussed constructing a modular vessel constructed
out of sealable cylinders, namely used/recycled propane tanks
roughly 10ft, by 40-50 ft. in a tri hull configuration , with a
superstructure and nacelle designs allowing travel through out all
interior areas without exiting to the exterior for any reson related
to the vessels operation. Remember this is to be a model systems
test vessel for eventual spacecraft design and as such will exceed
the normal design parameters for an ocean going vessel. As such if
the entire vessel were to be submerged to a depth of say 100 ft. ,
it should remain airtight in all areas. While the intent is not to
build a submarine, none the less the capacity and potential may
equate, without the inclusion of ballast tank for such a purpose.

It has also been suggested that certain optical systems be
incorporated, including fiber optics, not just for informational
systems, but also for what would normally considered heavy work
loads, such as but not limited to transmission of light for general
lighting sources and even transmission of laser light for possible
cooking / heating / and eventually an adjunct to propulsion systems
as they are eventually (possibly) integrated in a steam / turbo
jet / or ion drive system.

We are only in the beginning phase of what will become a
potentially very large project, with possible world wide
implications. We need all the IDEAS we can get now. Some of you know
a little of what we have discovered, so you know where eventually we
want to go.

I will stop now, as I have said enough to get out the idea
as to what point we are now at. Any Ideas are now welcome in any
area. Many of you know my address and / or phone number. Any of
these methods may be used to set up a more private "meeting" if the
subject matter needs security considerations.

Thankyou,
Mystery
James Stevenson

Have had a reply from NASA, the short version is there should
be little or no effect. As for the long version which is of some
interest, it will follow.

Mystery
=====================================================================
Richard Gross, a scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab (JPL) in
Pasadena, California, has modeled the coseismic effect on the
Earth's rotation of the December 26 earthquake in Indonesia by using
the PREM model for the elastic properties of the Earth and the
Harvard centroid-moment tensor solution for the source properties of
the earthquake. The result of this modeling is:

Change in length of day: -2.676 microseconds (about one second in a
millennium)
X-axis polar motion excitation: -0.670 milliarcseconds
(approximately 2 centimeters or 0.8 inches)
Y-axis polar motion excitation: +0.475 milliarcseconds
(approximately 1.5 centimeters or 0.6 inches)

Since the length of the day can only be measured to an accuracy of
about 20 microseconds (20 millionths of a second), this model
predicts that the change in the length-of-day caused by the
earthquake is too small to be observed. And, since the location of
the earthquake was near the equator, this model predicts that the
change in polar motion excitation is also rather small, being about
0.82 milliarcsecond in amplitude. Such a small change in polar
motion excitation will also be difficult to detect.

Nevertheless, at a science conference in Utah last week, Professor
Ulrich Schreiber of the Munich Technical University in Germany
reported that his Earth-based, ultra-precise "G" ring laser
gyroscope was able to detect perturbations in the Earth's axis as a
result of the Indonesian earthquake. This gyroscope--the largest of
its kind in the world--contains a giant glass ceramic disc, 4.25
meters in diameter, 25 centimeters thick and weighing 10 tons. It is
located in a sealed and pressurized chamber, eight meters below the
surface of the Earth, at the Wettzell Fundamental Research Station
in New Zealand. This instrument was specifically designed to be able
to detect changes in the Earth's rotation within a day. For more
information on the "G" ring laser gyroscope, see a 1996 article on
the Web site of the International Society for Optical Engineering
(SPIE) or download a PDF copy of a 2003 paper from the Wettzell
Fundamental Research Station.

In contrast, the GP-B gyroscopes have not detected any measurable
effect as a result of the Indonesian earthquake and tsunami. GP-B is
measuring the curvature and twisting of space-time around the Earth,
not the planet itself. Our spacecraft is in a circular orbit, 640
kilometers (400 miles) above the earth, always passing over the
north and south poles, but varying in its longitudinal path with
each orbit. The extremely small change in the earth's polar motion
resulting from the Indonesian earthquake/tsunami is simply not
significant enough to appear in our measurements. Also, any small
change in the Earth's polar motion will factor itself out, given the
changing longitude of each orbit.

Our measurements do depend on knowing our spacecraft's position
relative to specific locations on Earth to a high precision, and for
these measurements, we use the Global Positioning System (GPS). It
is possible, though highly unlikely, that if a re-calibration in the
GPS satellites is required, we may need to incorporate some
compensating factors.

Gravity Probe B could conceivably register a change in Earth's polar
orbit, if the change were of immense proportions. For example,
suppose the earth's spin axis were to change position by 3 degrees.
This would significantly affect local space-time, and this change
would be detectable by the science instruments on-board the
spacecraft. However, such a change would require a cataclysmic
event, ten million times larger than the Indonesian earthquake and
tsunami—an event that would mean the end of Planet Earth, as we know
it.

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